These airlines have only been so succesful because they have collaborated with other players. There are three cargo airlines on the HKG-ANC route, they are all part of the same alliance and they all interline with each other. I naturally assume that they have co-ordinated their routes, flights and schedules from ANC so that they can interline as much cargo traffic between them as possible, and they would have done this from the start, when they each would only have been able to afford one large cargo aircraft each. Any other player wishing to emulate this strategy will be nowhere near as succesful if they don't have other players to co-operate with of course.
I started flying long-haul from the very beginning and daily as well, the thing is it wasn't cargo and I didn't have alliance partners to co-operate with. My airline is doing quite well compared to most others primarily because I have focused on long-haul (less flights mean less landing fees and lower maintenance costs), but nowhere near as well compared to some of these cargo airlines, some of them are 3 times bigger than mine by security deposits alone.
If you consider colluding as cheating, then that is exactly what these airlines are doing. I wouldn't necessarily consider it cheating myself, as being able to collude with other players is just the benefit of being in an alliance.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with making friends and working together, that is the whole point of being in an alliance of course. However, like I have already mentioned many, many times before in this thread, I am suspicious that all these airlines may not be friends working together, but could in fact be just one person with different user accounts. Now that is definitely cheating, but I have no way of proving this myself, maybe the AS Team can, but if they can't, there's just not much anyone can do about this situation unfourtunately.
And once again, I find myself repeating myself, but the alliance that all these airlines are a part of is/was known by another name in many other game worlds (I'm not allowed to name any names, but I'm sure most people know of the alliance I'm referring to). The players in this alliance always cause some kind of trouble in the beginning of every game world, where they are either accused of cheating/unfair game play by other players and have frequently had their accounts deleted by the AS Team.
I don't think these players have a peaceful world, they spend far, far too much time trying to find any loophole and trying to find any little thing that will give them a ridiculous advantage over every other player. Now, I must admit, if they are actually not technically cheating, then they are just playing the game very well, much better than everyone else, but it has been previously discussed at length in the forums that their over-aggressive (definitely not 'peaceful') form of game play certainly does make AS much less enjoyable for the vast majority of other players. Did you ever see the South Park episode entitled "World of Warcraft"? That is exactly what happens with these 'alliance' members at the beginning of every new world, they become so obsessed with winning by a country mile that they can easily ruin the game for everyone else . . .
I am suspicious that all these airlines may not be friends working together, but could in fact be just one person with different user accounts. Now that is definitely cheating, but I have no way of proving this myself, maybe the AS Team can, but if they can't, there's just not much anyone can do about this situation unfourtunately...
In dubio pro reo. Unless you have proof someone is cheating, there's no point at getting mad about it. I don't see cheating. I see someone far more clever than the average player that found a market and not a loophole to earn money quickly.
You may not see cheating, but how do you know ? Can you check the URL’s of all these different usernames and confirm that they are not the same person ? Only the AS team can check that, but even then, someone could be really sneaky and use things like TorGuard to make it look like all their different usernames have different URL’s. Believe me, if someone really wants to cheat this game they can do it, I certainly wouldn’t put it past some players on here. And if they’re careful enough to hide their tracks, there’s nothing anyone can do to stop them. There’s no point in me getting mad, because what can I do about it ? If they make playing the game for me too hard or frustrating, then I will simply stop playing and stop giving AS my money. So it’s their loss in the end, not mine.
I always get suspicious when a few airlines that always belong to the same alliance get way too big and way too fast at the start of every game world in comparison to almost every other airline. It is of course an absolute possibility that they have just played the game that much better than the rest of us, so good for them, they’ve won !!! However, it is impossible for either you or I to know if they may or may not be cheating, so how about we just leave it at that . . . I can’t prove that they ARE cheating (and I must admit they may not be) and you can’t prove that they AREN’T.
It's a bit offputting when this happens, as I'm on my 3rd and 4th Reim projects just trying to break even, let alone grow.
That being said, as long as they are following the rules and spirit of the game, good for them. As far as I know, as long as they are different users, they aren't doing anything wrong if they find an underserved market and use it to bank cash.
The only thing that this does bring up: I'm not sure if it should be allowed for airlines in Cargo to turn to PAX down the road. As someone said earlier, I do find it unfair (but not against the current rules) if they bankroll themselves in Cargo, then just go take over a major airport and flood it for PAX to chase out the others. I'm not sure what to suggest, but it seems like that would be a bit unfair as the rules of Cargo are designed to let Cargo airlines survive, not to have Cargo airlines be the way to start major passenger airlines.
Any cargo airline can start carrying passengers from their country, and any cargo passenger airline can start carrying cargo worldwide, both can do that at any time.
There is no differentiation of passenger and cargo airline, with the exception of the aircraft they order. But there is no designation of "cargo airline", "mainline" or "regional airline". Any holding/airline can be one, two, or all three at the same time.
Unless there is a startup selection of what airline you are going to run, and that would make only certain aircraft choices available to you down the road... but that would require rewriting the whole game dynamics, so I see that as quite difficult prospect.
i don't see any reason to have only cargo or passenger airlines. like some other players on Kai Tak, i'm providing both cargo service and passenger service by one airline. It's totally you choice how you start and run an airline. It will save some maintenance categories if you run both services at the same time. Also, it's unrealistic to have cargo or passenger ONLY airlines. Airline can have both services. think about Northwest, KLM, Air France...
i don't think those airlines will just suddenly turn to passenger airlines. They will probably run both services at the same time even if they decide to have passenger services. You can also start to run cargo if you want to. It's your choice. However, I believe that you can make more money from passenger services than cargo services if you can cooperate with other players and get good schedules.
i will absolutely reject the idea about choosing which kind of services i will have when i start an airline. it's totally unnecessary.
Too bad someone else gets two 747-8F delivered. :D
can't afford the 74Z with 10 million initial cash, so 76Y is good enough for a humble beginning :p
let the champagne flowing.. *launching 6 weekly ANC-HKG*
In dubio pro reo. Unless you have proof someone is cheating, there's no point at getting mad about it. I don't see cheating. I see someone far more clever than the average player that found a market and not a loophole to earn money quickly.
there's no proof so far, let's make new cargo holding company and work together instead :D
i don't see any reason to have only cargo or passenger airlines. like some other players on Kai Tak, i'm providing both cargo service and passenger service by one airline. It's totally you choice how you start and run an airline. It will save some maintenance categories if you run both services at the same time. Also, it's unrealistic to have cargo or passenger ONLY airlines. Airline can have both services. think about Northwest, KLM, Air France...
i don't think those airlines will just suddenly turn to passenger airlines. They will probably run both services at the same time even if they decide to have passenger services. You can also start to run cargo if you want to. It's your choice. However, I believe that you can make more money from passenger services than cargo services if you can cooperate with other players and get good schedules.
i will absolutely reject the idea about choosing which kind of services i will have when i start an airline. it's totally unnecessary.
imho, cargo is a good starter if you know the market. no need to invest on fancy seat configuration, no need to hire pretty cabin crew, no need to think about in-flight services, just toss the goods on the floor of a freighter, fly any point in the world serving O/D demand and earn your cash right away.
in some airline they have separate cargo division to manage cargo business and sell the mainline belly cargo in addition to operate dedicated cargo fleet, so it's good to simulate this cargo division with a subsidiary of passenger airline.. you can save some bucks by maintain not more than 3 aircraft type in each airline and still interline both to integrate their networks.
These airlines runs well only because the supply is too low. I means few user provide wide body jet passenger service with large cargo space.
As more and more users are running 747,777,787 on this route, their will not be so much demand for pure cargo planes.
so let's help by pouring some capacity and squeeze some quick cash :D
I am starting cargo ops as well. But with one other purpose - give conpetition on those routes where they earn their money. Only way to ruin their plan, when as dont.
yep, just enjoy the game.. tada diduum tada diduum..
my one and only B76Y is now in Hong Kong and about to depart on its first flight to Anchorage.
As a new comer, I cut price by around 20% on its initial flight trying to win some customers.
RPC 001 will depart HKG with 486 CU to ANC, with 100 of it continue to PDX, ORD, MEM.
Can't wait to collect my AS$ 330,000 when they left and hope fully in 3 days I can afford 2nd B76Y.
All thanks to this thread, AS, and all my interline partners. Thank you!
I will remind my self next time a gameworld start, I will start with cargo first.
Did the same yesterday and thanks to this thread aswell. :D Even though im not that keen on cargo airlines im giving it a go. My passanger airlines on Riem are just for fun and see how far and how big i can grow compared to others.
The trick is to interline and to charge double the rate, from what I understand from this thread. But I may be wrong as I have not reviewed that case in detail.