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Floating market prices of airplanes !?


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#21 highscore

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Posted 14.08.2017 - 19:47

Are you sure that people would stay for several years just because they have signed a leasing contract for 5 years? What would you suggest how to keep players in the game after (for example) half a year, at a time a player wants to stop AS?



#22 N19840214

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Posted 14.08.2017 - 20:11

of course it's gonna raise the chance that player will stay longer with AS. Wherever it's gonna be a 1% or 100% chance doesn't really matter. It's already a challenge to play AS after 2 months since options are pretty tide and simplified. At the same time more competition could be expected (on new servers) since players do not just start with 3-4 737's. Fuerthermore it's relatively easy to configuration such a tool inside of the AC detail page in comparison to other features...

#23 N19840214

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Posted 14.08.2017 - 20:13

Regarding your question I didn't really got it? Why should players at large quite AS after 6 months?

#24 highscore

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Posted 14.08.2017 - 21:50

Players are quitting - there are many reasons for it. Family, sickness, holidays, private life - I cannot imagine that a discount on planes in a game will keep any players to stay longer.



#25 N19840214

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Posted 15.08.2017 - 10:15

Players are quitting - there are many reasons for it. Family, sickness, holidays, private life - I cannot imagine that a discount on planes in a game will keep any players to stay longer.

The discount itself will not affect the duration directly. More over it enables to get more planes from the beginning and to grow faster. i think it's a matter of fact that people will stick around longer in case they have something to do... at the same time the chance to have more competition, especially on big markets, will rise significantly

I can't deliver any evidence that it'll positively affect the average duration of a single player nor can you that it'll have no positive impact ;-)

The thing is that we're talking about an airline SIMULATION (not game) and hence the rates should follow real market conditions. Question will be how to obtain information about real world leasing condition... answer is quite simple; no evidence can be provided since all Airlines out there have different conditions.

By the end of the day I'd suggest to get leasing rates down by 15% in order to create more base for competition and to bring more fun to those who are paying for the credits...

Edited by N19840214, 15.08.2017 - 10:17.


#26 ianmanson

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Posted 15.08.2017 - 11:01

I personally really don't see a need to make the game easier which is effectively what your asking. We already have multiple servers running double slots, and you get 10mil starting capital for zero work. You may sit there and go I'm experienced, but I started as a beginner, on a legacy server, many many resets and many learning curves to get to where I am. I don't see why it should be handed out on a plate.

Secondly what are you basing your 15% number on exactly? How is that number based on real life? Yes it's near enough impossible to get market rates but you must of come up with the theory that leasing rates are too high based on something?

#27 Matth

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Posted 15.08.2017 - 11:06

I also think the 15% are as arbitrary as the current values used in the system. There is not hard evidence for either values to be correct.

 

And then, the leasing rates have to relate to salaries, handling fees, fuel prices, ticket prices etc. So we probably could argue about all those and come up with evidence why the one is too high or too low. It would probably be a never ending discussion.

 

Making it easier to play? Well, that is certainly something I would support, mostly for new players, and mostly on existing worlds.

 

So any new holding should maybe get a discounted leasing for their first 20 aircraft, on existing servers. But then, there are also other ideas about encouraging new entrants on existing servers (see my suggestion about higher starting capital depending on lower user numbers).


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#28 highscore

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Posted 15.08.2017 - 11:16

On every server, it is possible to find cheap planes for leasing. With a lot more of discount than 15 or 20%. Hence I don't see an evidence to react here. And as Matth has pointed out, someone always will find another fact or topic to argue with. The forum is full of these suggestions.

#29 N19840214

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Posted 15.08.2017 - 12:27

I personally really don't see a need to make the game easier which is effectively what your asking. We already have multiple servers running double slots, and you get 10mil starting capital for zero work. You may sit there and go I'm experienced, but I started as a beginner, on a legacy server, many many resets and many learning curves to get to where I am. I don't see why it should be handed out on a plate.
Secondly what are you basing your 15% number on exactly? How is that number based on real life? Yes it's near enough impossible to get market rates but you must of come up with the theory that leasing rates are too high based on something?


As I've said it's hard to provide an evidence for lower rates ( as well as it would be to proof current rates ) and yes I do agree that that a never ending discussion could be that case since lots of charges do not match (PAX fees, Catering etc.) to what is happening out there. Some other charges like cleaning, crew costs for Hotels (if plane is not stationed at crews/AC home airport) are totally being missed.

Don't get me wrong, I know it's next to impossible to get everything inside since all airports having different charges and it would take days By the end we are talking about smal steps to justify the word SIMULATION. Anyhow I think that our conversation does not really match the topic of this treat

My opinion/knowledge is based on a 12 years experience in aviation (mng level).

#30 ianmanson

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Posted 15.08.2017 - 12:31

I'm not doubting you experience in aviation nor am I going to play top trumps on it. What I am really getting at is how have you come to the conclusion that rates are too high? Is it based on 1US$ = 1AS$, and that one day in AS world = one day in the real world?



#31 N19840214

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Posted 15.08.2017 - 12:42

I'm not doubting you experience in aviation nor am I going to play top trumps on it. What I am really getting at is how have you come to the conclusion that rates are too high? Is it based on 1US$ = 1AS$, and that one day in AS world = one day in the real world?


Ok buddy, I think you're going way to far with questing the the exchange rates - sounds like a really bad excuse and I doubt that you're having the rights as a moderator to do that! Anyway I'll get you an answer. Yes, USD 1 Is similar to ASD 1. Check out Aircraft standard rates from Boeing @ Co. and compare them with the indicated prices inside of here- you'll get the answer.

we gonna turn in cyrcles therefore do not expect any further feedback from me on this.

#32 ianmanson

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Posted 15.08.2017 - 12:46

I ask because that is a common mis-conception over the years on here that 1 dollar in AS is exactly the same as 1 dollar in US. There is also a 4x multiplier built into AS therefore 1 AS day = 4 real days. That is why I question the logic. I don't  understand why your questioning the role as a moderator or what it has to do with your theory. As stated before you can find rates out there for far less than 15% cheaper, you have to work for them



#33 N19840214

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Posted 15.08.2017 - 13:17

I ask because that is a common mis-conception over the years on here that 1 dollar in AS is exactly the same as 1 dollar in US. There is also a 4x multiplier built into AS therefore 1 AS day = 4 real days. That is why I question the logic. I don't  understand why your questioning the role as a moderator or what it has to do with your theory. As stated before you can find rates out there for far less than 15% cheaper, you have to work for them


Breaking my own statement not to reply hurts... yes

I'm not planing to see my teller and ask him to exchange my ASD into USD. Therefore it doesn't really matter if the ROE is 1:1.
Fact is that values of AC's fully match with the real life prices (official list prices). Therefore it's just logical and shouldn't be questioned that leasing rates representing the same value...

As I've stated in my first reply it should be implemented on new servers/game world. There you can't lease planes from any players.

#34 highscore

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Posted 15.08.2017 - 14:03

On Otto, planes were available after some days. And I bet that the first planes will be available also on Quimby either now or in a couple of days. It does also not matter as everybody starts with the same conditions in AS on a new world - and you can definitely grow fast with 10 Mio capital. See Otto and Quimby.
If everybody could lease planes for cheaper rates than they are now - what would be the benefit? Faster growth of everybody and faster lack of slots... would this be better?

#35 N19840214

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Posted 15.08.2017 - 14:47

On Otto, planes were available after some days. And I bet that the first planes will be available also on Quimby either now or in a couple of days. It does also not matter as everybody starts with the same conditions in AS on a new world - and you can definitely grow fast with 10 Mio capital. See Otto and Quimby.
If everybody could lease planes for cheaper rates than they are now - what would be the benefit? Faster growth of everybody and faster lack of slots... would this be better?


I presume that a high percentage of player are giving up quite early since the grow of real time simulation does not meet the expectation of everyone in regard of speed. Since real time of AS is essential to make it realistic there should be a compromise... you just keep players busy from the very beginning and there will be a chance that some game worlds will not look like deserts... More planes = more income = faster grow = more time required to plan/manage them = user will spend more time = more competition = more fun...

#36 rubiohiguey2000

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Posted 15.08.2017 - 23:52

http://www.airliners...c.php?t=1361025

http://www.airliners...c.php?t=1345101

http://www.airliners...ic.php?t=587137

#37 N19840214

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Posted 16.08.2017 - 06:00

http://www.airliners...c.php?t=1361025http://www.airliners...c.php?t=1345101http://www.airliners...ic.php?t=587137

Really? Someone put down some figures, connecting it to a "source" and that's a proof??? Looks like fake news... ;-)

Check out this and keep in mind that these figures do not represent Airline Leasing rates with discounts etc... http://www.aircraftv...-800-hold-firm/

You may checkout the web for information concerning leasing rates of Ryanair/Southwest. They are getting up to 60% discount on brand new aircrafts.

Anyway it's hard to provide any evidence (both ways) since these figures will never be published from the one and only reliable source (Airlines/manufacture).

Edited by N19840214, 16.08.2017 - 07:31.


#38 rubiohiguey2000

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Posted 16.08.2017 - 14:09

Really? Someone put down some figures, connecting it to a "source" and that's a proof??? Looks like fake news... ;-)

You are an i-word. LAXintl is a very respected poster on a.net and known industry veteran to community there. The sources are quoted, IBA, ISTAT, ASCEND. But you apparently don't even know what those are.

Get down to earth and stop thinking of yourself as the best thing on earth after sliced bread, Mr. Know It All. Your "airline background" is probably trumped by a quarter or more of AS players.

#39 N19840214

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Posted 16.08.2017 - 14:54

You are an i-word. LAXintl is a very respected poster on a.net and known industry veteran to community there. The sources are quoted, IBA, ISTAT, ASCEND. But you apparently don't even know what those are.
Get down to earth and stop thinking of yourself as the best thing on earth after sliced bread, Mr. Know It All. Your "airline background" is probably trumped by a quarter or more of AS players.


Wow, hope you didn't got a heart stroke! Beside what you're calling me it's quite obvious now that you got your figures (I call it painting) from a 4 years old if not self invented...

Cheers

#40 ianmanson

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Posted 16.08.2017 - 14:59

Moderator hat: I think the thread has now reached its natural conclusion, and there is very little merit in keeping it open. To prevent further escalation of personal insults I will now lock this thread. Please can I suggest to all that if you are going to post on a public forum expect your ideas and suggestions to be challenged by others, and don't be insulted when this happens. An opinion is personal, just because it is yours, does not mean it's everyone elses






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