As probably no one read Quimby V thread, I put my question also here.
Someone maybe knows the answer…
Which airline and which routes?
As you mention in the other threads, you're probably suffering a bit from more connections evolving in a new world. Your flights from PEK have probably contained a lot of connecting passengers to the rest of Europe in the beginning. Now they can probably fly direct, wherever they wish to go.
That said, to fly long haul in this game, you usually need a big feeder network. But where’s your flights to AMS, CDG, FRA, LHR, LGW, DUB etc.? Connecting these airports will increase your traffic.
OK, this is my original post:
"I started with roughly 25% of cabin for business class. All flights were full, even with terrible price :-)
Now it is less than 10% with superb price, service, ORS rating 100%, connections, interlining... and yet the 10% is filled up only occasionally.
It is not just about me, I checked the ORS and around 95% of all long haul flights aren't fully booked in C.
I understand we have more and more aircraft in the skies, but with economy pax is no problem - my utilization is still 98% for example.
But It seems, according to my calculations, C class shares only 2-3% of all pax, what is a bit strange number..."
I highlighted the most important sentences to bold.
I opened route to KIX recently, for example. .... checked situation in ORS ... and no one flight to European destination (VIE, HEL, DUS, MUC, MAD, AMS) is full in C...
Which plane, which seats, which ORS rating? Give us a bit more facts to make it possible to advice you please.
Which plane, which seats, which ORS rating? Give us a bit more facts to make it possible to advice you please.
It doesn't matter. Just spend some time at Quimby V ORS and you will see.
I understand SKoM.
I have strong cargo airline with a lot interline partners. So I started longhaul passenger flights with 787-9 in end of January. ORS rating 100% in C. It worked for month maybe and after that - sudden drop in C almost to zero. So I started shorthaul to feed my longhaul, but it didn't help.
So I made a decision and cancelled all passenger aircraft leasing and I'll become pure cargo operator again within a few days :-)
Seems 14.8% of all passengers are business passengers at the moment.
Have you considered that passengers in AS will go up or down one class if their preferred option is not available? Maybe you did particularly well on business to start with because there was no 1st class, or economy was full on a passengers desired route (not just your flights but worldwide). Therefore they went for business, now there are more economy seats available they now go for economy
It doesn't matter. Just spend some time at Quimby V ORS and you will see.
I understand SKoM.
I have strong cargo airline with a lot interline partners. So I started longhaul passenger flights with 787-9 in end of January. ORS rating 100% in C. It worked for month maybe and after that - sudden drop in C almost to zero. So I started shorthaul to feed my longhaul, but it didn't help.
So I made a decision and cancelled all passenger aircraft leasing and I'll become pure cargo operator again within a few days :-)
i don't want to send some time at Quimby, that's why I asked for more informations.
Ianmanson is already giving an explanation on the overall situation (at least it could be an explanation). Longhaul in general works with a huge domestic network installed and not out of the box - new servers work differently but after some weeks, the network is as important as on legacy worlds.
Seems 14.8% of all passengers are business passengers at the moment.
Have you considered that passengers in AS will go up or down one class if their preferred option is not available? Maybe you did particularly well on business to start with because there was no 1st class, or economy was full on a passengers desired route (not just your flights but worldwide). Therefore they went for business, now there are more economy seats available they now go for economy
Currently passengers do NOT switch classes. If a business passenger doesn’t find his flight, he won’t fly. You could even offer first cheaper with a better seat, no one will upgrade.
@Highscore: He’s asking why particularly business pax are missing. He still has Eco (without a feeder network) but none in business. That’s interesting, although I don’t have an explanation.
Currently passengers do NOT switch classes. If a business passenger doesn't find his flight, he won't fly. You could even offer first cheaper with a better seat, no one will upgrade.
Sorry, that what I read from a team member a while ago. Sorry for misinformation then...
Sorry, that what I read from a team member a while ago. Sorry for misinformation then...
To clear up the confusion about that part: Passengers do switch down a class, but only in special cases. So if your long-haul flight offers first class, the first class passenger might use a feeder with business class, if there's no alternative. Same goes one level lower. However, these class downgrades for feeders come with a big drop in rating, so in most cases it doesn't make all that much difference.
Regarding the original question: ianmanson already hinted at the actual business to economy class ratio, based on the game world statistics. So you don't need to worry about business demanding being only 2-3% of passengers.
In the end, it'll just be a matter of competition. I guess many airlines started with lots of business class seats - just like you did - and now this where competition kicks in the most.
When Riem started I began an all-C airline. And as someone else mentioned, after some time my pax got gobbled up by connecting pax flying direct, as more airlines started offering long-haul services that competed with mine, and so I gradually shrunk C class. If you have great Y loads you can change your config to offer 10-15 C, and F if you don't have it already, and the rest in Y.
I know... everybody is busy, so no time to check the ORS.
FCO-ATL, 787-8... 21Y189Y...6 sold seats in C (on flight with rating 100 in C and full Y with rating 85) is far far away from 14,8% mentioned above.
Anothere example: only a few airlines operate direct flights between Europe and SYD/MEL. I am one of them. But no one according to ORS has C class full. Last week I have sold 0 (zero) seats to MEL and 2 to SYD, even I built terminal due this flights and I use it.
I checked the ORS for some of your flights earlier. I don’t know if around 2300$ for a JFK is a superb price, when other carriers sell it for 1300.
And just because 14.8% of all pax on the server is C, doesn’t automatically apply to all routes.
On Riem, I have routes where I am the absolute only carrier - also connecting wise. (Only operator in an airport), and in some of them, there’s basically 0 demand for business. That’s just a part of the game. 
I know... everybody is busy, so no time to check the ORS.
FCO-ATL, 787-8... 21Y189Y...6 sold seats in C (on flight with rating 100 in C and full Y with rating 85) is far far away from 14,8% mentioned above.
So before I even start typing I have wasted half an hour on the ORS checking it and its fairly obvious to me where you are falling down.
I am not analyzing every flight in your schedule but we will use the AFC 33 FCO-ATL 13:15 22:34 tomorrow as you have used it.
There are
- 115 arrivals into FCO on Monday
- 55 arrive too late (11:45 onwards)
- 22 arrive too early (before 07:15, 6 hour connection)
- This leaves 36 eligible arrivals based on time
- 13 of these have not-eligible because the via FCO routing is too far (1.5x the direct distance)
- 15 more the first connecting flight is FULL in business class
- So we are now we are down to 8 connecting flights
- 4 of which don't appear on the first page of ORS
- 2 are by far the most expensive routing
- The 2 remaining are JNB and DEL....
- There is a direct JNB-ATL which is not full, so guess not sufficient demand
- DEL I can't imagine there is much demand...but even so you are number 4 on ORS even if there were
What I have learned analyzing your timetable and ORS / what I would change...
- Increase your short haul flights, you have relatively few to support your short haul
- If your short haul business class is full, make the section bigger
- You must rely on Short - Long Haul connection, not Long - Long haul connections
Thanks, ianmanson, for your time…
And just because 14.8% of all pax on the server is C, doesn't automatically apply to all routes.
Yes! This is exactly what I'm asking about.
It seems, that on some routes (EU-Japan, EU-Australia) is this number close to 5% instead of 15% - and 5% is weird number on longhaul.
I am not analyzing every flight in your schedule but we will use the AFC 33 FCO-ATL 13:15 22:34 tomorrow as you have used it.
Thank you for your time, but unfortunately you completely missed the point.
The reason, why I wrote in my first post "It is not just about me" in bold was, that it is not about me :)
I've checked hundreds (yes, really) flights in ORS before I started this topic. And compared what I saw in ORS with Fleet lists data of the company. Result was, that utilization is really far away from the 14,8%. This is reason for this topic, not my flight to ATL.
And b.t.w., your analysis of my AFC33 is cool, but I guess you forgot for IL connections, as I am only operator between FCO and ATL and I keep more than 65% of capacity on all FCO-TATL flights.
If I’d of counted interlines I would of spent another hour.
The 14.8% is the number of transported passengers. It’s on the statistics page so is available to everyone. Of course not all routes are going to attract that. However 100% that in the game world, 14.8% are travelling business, that is a fact not opinion. So in answe to the question, they are going on someone else’s aeroplane (they are not walking)
The reason you have seen a decline is that your strategy has not adapted. Big kudos on your start strategy it seems to of worked. But you must now consolidate and adapt. Your strategy is based on there been very few opportunists for a passenger getting from a - b, as the game world changes and more routes are launched there are more opportunities for passengers to be picky. Instead of been forced to go 1.49 times the distance to get somewhere, they can more than likely get to 1.1 times instead. Here in lies the problem with an almost long haul only airline. With a big short haul feeder you will have many more opportunities of routings closer to 1.1 number than with long haul 1.5.
The passengers are there despite what you think. It’s up to you to find them and attract them to your airline
The reason you have seen a decline is that your strategy has not adapted. Big kudos on your start strategy it seems to of worked. But you must now consolidate and adapt. Your strategy is based on there been very few opportunists for a passenger getting from a - b, as the game world changes and more routes are launched there are more opportunities for passengers to be picky. Instead of been forced to go 1.49 times the distance to get somewhere, they can more than likely get to 1.1 times instead. Here in lies the problem with an almost long haul only airline. With a big short haul feeder you will have many more opportunities of routings closer to 1.1 number than with long haul 1.5.
The passengers are there despite what you think. It’s up to you to find them and attract them to your airline
Sorry, but again: it is not about me. Nor my strategy. My English is not perfect, but I guess these five words are clearly understandable :) What I wrote about my airline was just a part of explanation of situation I see at Quimby V.
I do not talk about statistics, as I have university degree of it (partially) :angry:
I talk about all longhaul flights at Quimby V and about circa 90% of them they are not full in C. I try to talk about weird (I like this word) numbers of longhaul C pax compared to shorthaul C pax - and especially compared to real world.
OK, one question about my airline: what then do attract economy pax to my airline, if the connections are the same and prices and ratings in ORS are worse than in C class?
My own answer to me is, that there are a lot of horny economy pax on long haul, ready jump on every available flight, even with Ryansh.t seats and "no-service".
But someone has better answer, maybe...