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#21 THRACIAN

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Posted 30.06.2017 - 17:49

Whether there will be a change in slot allocation depends on the team ! For now, I have nothing more to add to this topic.

Apparently there is a misunderstanding. How is it possible to have new aircraft from 1959 to 2017 on Otto 2 ?

Can not there be any from 1980 to 1989 years !? I do not understand what the difference !?



#22 TWAAir

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Posted 30.06.2017 - 19:05

I think they chose to have all aircraft available on Otto to make it interesting, and be aware that all those models are available in some other game world, but maybe just not in new. Another thing i want to add is the IL18 issue is the price was wrongly listed for the Otto: per Wikipedia, it about $24,500,000 (2011 USD equivalent) in the real world, not the one listed in game. This is similar to the price for an ATR, or maybe a little bit cheaper than that. I doubt it would be an issue if the price is right, and the IL18 dumping issue would not even occur. 

 

Your suggestion is different from Otto server because you want a historical server, so it brings up all other questions about airports and slots. if you want this type server, you definitely want to make it right, especially Airlinesim is promoted to make it 'real', not just a game. If it's not your thought, then it would probably be Otto server again because you are not going to have different servers running with different aircraft from different time period available in new. 


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#23 AK

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Posted 30.06.2017 - 21:08

...
Apparently there is a misunderstanding. How is it possible to have new aircraft from 1959 to 2017 on Otto 2 ?
Can not there be any from 1980 to 1989 years !? I do not understand what the difference !?


The game only includes types that are either available for order or still in service in certain quantities - today.
And that's the very difference.

If you pick a year - let's take the mentioned 1987 - for a new server, you'd get the following:
- today's demand structure (which is actually supply in many cases)
- today's infrastructure (landing in Chek Lap Kok instead of Kaitak, Den Intl. instead of Stapleton? Really?)
- only aircraft that where offered not later than 1987 AND have existing database entries
That's no Caravelle, DC-4/6/7, Comet, CV-990, 720/707-120, Mercure etc...

Doesn't feel right, does it?

#24 Matth

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Posted 01.07.2017 - 02:25

I don't get you guys. Yes, he wants a historical server with planes that were available up to 1987. New types should not (yet) exist on this server.

Of course, you can make it super perfect and invest hundreds of hours researching the demand from 1987, adjust airports, add missing aircraft types and I don't know what. But that's not the point.

Not all things have to be 100% perfect. Why not have a world, where demand is a bit different, a few newer airports exist, but you're restricted to some specific aircraft? That's as "real" as Otto II, with brand new DC8 and 727s. Nobody was bothered by that fact.

I can perfectly understand his idea and believe it can make sense. I might object to that only cos Quimby now also has old aircraft so it's kinda a similar thing.

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#25 THRACIAN

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Posted 01.07.2017 - 03:28

I don't get you guys. Yes, he wants a historical server with planes that were available up to 1987. New types should not (yet) exist on this server.
Of course, you can make it super perfect and invest hundreds of hours researching the demand from 1987, adjust airports, add missing aircraft types and I don't know what. But that's not the point.
Not all things have to be 100% perfect. Why not have a world, where demand is a bit different, a few newer airports exist, but you're restricted to some specific aircraft? That's as "real" as Otto II, with brand new DC8 and 727s. Nobody was bothered by that fact.


Yes. Exactly. This is my suggestion. The starting point is the year of the first airplane produced, not the last date of its operation.
OTTO 2.1 / Option 1 - 1960 - 1969 only new planes
OTTO 2.2 / Option 2 - 1970 - 1979 only new planes
OTTO 2.3 / Option 3 - 1980 - 1989 only new planes
OTTO 2.4 / Option 4 - 1990 - 1999 only new planes
OTTO 2.5 / Option 5 - 2000 - 2009 only new planes
OTTO 2.6 / Option 6 - 2010 - 2019 only new planes

These are 6 variants, can any of them become available when rebooting a temporary server !?


Edited by THRACIAN, 01.07.2017 - 19:05.


#26 AK

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Posted 01.07.2017 - 08:37

I don't get you guys. Yes, he wants a historical server with planes that were available up to 1987. New types should not (yet) exist on this server.
Of course, you can make it super perfect and invest hundreds of hours researching the demand from 1987, adjust airports, add missing aircraft types and I don't know what. But that's not the point.
Not all things have to be 100% perfect. Why not have a world, where demand is a bit different, a few newer airports exist, but you're restricted to some specific aircraft? That's as "real" as Otto II, with brand new DC8 and 727s. Nobody was bothered by that fact.
I can perfectly understand his idea and believe it can make sense. I might object to that only cos Quimby now also has old aircraft so it's kinda a similar thing.

Thinking about it again, I've got to admit the idea for such fun server is growing on me.

I'd vote for including everything that had it's EIS not later than 1979. That's roundabout the time when industry stopped designing interesting aircraft - IMHO at least.

Me might want to change fuel prices and noise regulations though.;)

#27 THRACIAN

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Posted 04.09.2017 - 06:45

Airplanes produced more than 10 years ago can not compete with new models from 2016.

It is therefore necessary to have a division of aircrafts by years.

With CS100, it makes no sense to order A318 and B736 under the current game conditions. If the hours of production and delivery change, there may be a level playing field.

Since 2012, Boeing has removed the 737-600 from their list of aircraft prices. Number built 69.

Since 2013,  Airbus has removed the 318-100 from their list of aircraft prices. Number built 80.

 

CS1   Quantity produced 1 /    60h - Bombardier CSeries 100

CS3   Quantity produced 1 /    60h - Bombardier CSeries 300

318    Quantity produced 1 /    21h - Airbus A318

736    Quantity produced 1 /    21h - Boeing 737-600

L4T    Quantity produced 1 /  168h - LET 410UVP

SU9    Quantity produced 1 /    72h - Sukhoi Superjet 100-95, Sukhoi Superjet 100-95LR

T20    Quantity produced 1 /  180h - Tupolev TU-204-100, Tupolev TU-204-120, Tupolev TU-204-300

AT7    Quantity produced 1 /    48h - ATR 72

AT5    Quantity produced 1 /    60h - ATR 42

DH4    Quantity produced 1 /   48h - Bombardier Dash8-Q400 NextGen

CRJ    Quantity produced 1 /   30h - Bombardier CRJ 700, Bombardier CRJ 900, Bombardier CRJ 1000

EBR    Quantity produced 1 /   30h - Embraer 170, Embraer 175, Embraer 190, Embraer 195

C27    Quantity produced 1 /    60h - Comac ARJ21-700, Comac ARJ21-700ER

 

Quimby VI - CS1 vs. A318 & B736 : Results 1,158 - 202

 

Quimby VI   CS1 available seats - 130 available Cargo - 17 in operation 2016 Quantity produced 1 /   21h - 1,158 List price - 39,000,000 AS$ - Bombardier CSeries 100

 

Quimby VI   318 available Seats - 132 available Cargo - 13 in operation 2002 Quantity produced 1 /   21h -      68 List price -   40,700,000 AS$ - Airbus A318-100 light

Quimby VI   318 available Seats - 132 available Cargo - 13 in operation 2004 Quantity produced 1 /   21h -        7 List price -   42,000,000 AS$ - Airbus A318-100 medium

Quimby VI   318 available Seats - 132 available Cargo - 13 in operation 2001 Quantity produced 1 /   21h -        7 List price -   44,800,000 AS$ - Airbus A318-100 heavy

 

Quimby VI   736 available seats - 136 available Cargo - 13 in operation 1998 Quantity produced 1 /   21h -     112 List price -   40,500,000 AS$ - Boeing 737-600 BGW

Quimby VI   736 available seats - 136 available Cargo - 13 in operation 1998 Quantity produced 1 /   21h -         8 List price -   49,000,000 AS$ - Boeing 737-600 HGW

 

 

The Bombardier CSeries family has the following firm orders and delivered aircraft totals, as of 30 June 2017

 

              Ordered  Delivered

CS100     123              8

CS300     237              6

Total        360            14

 

A319neo, A320neo & A321neo orders and deliveries (as of 31 July 2017)

 

                  Ordered  Delivered

A319neo          50              0

A320neo     3,693          131

A321neo     1,424              5

Total            5,167         136


Edited by THRACIAN, 05.09.2017 - 21:08.


#28 taegu

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Posted 04.09.2017 - 08:01

Airplanes produced more than 10 years ago can not compete with new models from 2016.
It is therefore necessary to have a division of aircrafts by years.
With CS100, it makes no sense to order A318 and B736 under the current game conditions. If the hours of production and delivery change, there may be a level playing field.

CS1 Quantity produced 1 / 60h - Bombardier CSeries 100
CS3 Quantity produced 1 / 60h - Bombardier CSeries 300
318 Quantity produced 1 / 21h - Airbus A318
736 Quantity produced 1 / 21h - Boeing 737-600
L4T Quantity produced 1 / 168h - LET 410UVP
SU9 Quantity produced 1 / 72h - Sukhoi Superjet 100-95, Sukhoi Superjet 100-95LR
T20 Quantity produced 1 / 180h - Tupolev TU-204-100, Tupolev TU-204-120, Tupolev TU-204-300
AT7 Quantity produced 1 / 48h - ATR 72
AT5 Quantity produced 1 / 60h - ATR 42
DH4 Quantity produced 1 / 48h - Bombardier Dash8-Q400 NextGen
CRJ Quantity produced 1 / 30h - Bombardier CRJ 700, Bombardier CRJ 900, Bombardier CRJ 1000
EBR Quantity produced 1 / 30h - Embraer 170, Embraer 175, Embraer 190, Embraer 195
C27 Quantity produced 1 / 60h - Comac ARJ21-700, Comac ARJ21-700ER

Quimby VI - CS1 vs. A318 & B736 : Results 1,122 - 193

Quimby VI CS1 available seats - 130 available Cargo - 17 in operation 2016 Quantity produced 1 / 21h - 1,122 List price - 39,000,000 AS$ - Bombardier CSeries 100

Quimby VI 318 available Seats - 132 available Cargo - 13 in operation 2002 Quantity produced 1 / 21h - 65 List price - 40,700,000 AS$ - Airbus A318-100 light
Quimby VI 318 available Seats - 132 available Cargo - 13 in operation 2004 Quantity produced 1 / 21h - 7 List price - 42,000,000 AS$ - Airbus A318-100 medium
Quimby VI 318 available Seats - 132 available Cargo - 13 in operation 2001 Quantity produced 1 / 21h - 7 List price - 44,800,000 AS$ - Airbus A318-100 heavy

Quimby VI 736 available seats - 136 available Cargo - 13 in operation 1998 Quantity produced 1 / 21h - 106 List price - 40,500,000 AS$ - Boeing 737-600 BGW
Quimby VI 736 available seats - 136 available Cargo - 13 in operation 1998 Quantity produced 1 / 21h - 8 List price - 49,000,000 AS$ - Boeing 737-600 HGW


The Bombardier CSeries family has the following firm orders and delivered aircraft totals, as of 30 June 2017

Ordered Delivered
CS100 123 8
CS300 237 6
Total 360 14


Support this idea much more than the floating price. Price is nothing for those big airlines. Waiting time increased by such factors would cause airlines to diversify, or wait patiently. Which would also decrease the gap somewhat between old players on a server versus new entrants.

It would be cool if the build times could dynamically change weekly, or on another set time frame, based on demand.

#29 fug001

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Posted 04.09.2017 - 08:56

(..) Waiting time increased by such factors would cause airlines to diversify, or wait patiently. Which would also decrease the gap somewhat between old players on a server versus new entrants.

It would be cool if the build times could dynamically change weekly, or on another set time frame, based on demand.

 

Yes, I agree. You can see that best, when a new server starts. As soon as the CSeries have a longer waiting time, the airlines also order A318 and 736. Makes the worlds more colorful and interesting.


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#30 THRACIAN

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Posted 28.09.2017 - 07:20

taegu - #28
Support this idea much more than the floating price. Price is nothing for those big airlines. Waiting time increased by such factors would cause airlines to diversify, or wait patiently. Which would also decrease the gap somewhat between old players on a server versus new entrants. It would be cool if the build times could dynamically change weekly, or on another set time frame, based on demand.

 

Thracian:

It would be better if everyone chooses whether to buy at a low price but to wait longer or to pay the higher price. This is only possible for a new world.

When the price rises too much, the profitability drops and the purchase is meaningless. Because of the high cost and low profitability almost no buys. There are other such, very rarely used airplanes.

 

44,800,000 AS$ - Airbus A318-100 heavy
52,000,000 AS$ - Airbus A319-100 medium (enhanced)
53,000,000 AS$ - Airbus A319-100 high density
54,000,000 AS$ - Airbus A319-100 high density (enhanced)
53,000,000 AS$ - Boeing 737-700 HGW (winglets)

59,000,000 AS$ - Airbus A320-200 heavy (enhanced)


Game World - Quimby VI - 26.07.2017 - 07.11.2017
 

CS1 - in operation 2016 Quantity produced 1 /  21h - 2,602 ( +260h or +26% ) List price - 39,000,000 AS$= 1 / 21+260= 281h or Market price -  49,140,000 AS$ - Bombardier CSeries 100 + 26 %

CS3 - in operation 2016 Quantity produced 1 /  21h - 2,276 ( +220h or +22% ) List price - 46,000,000 AS$= 1 / 21+220= 241h or Market price -  56,120,000 AS$ - Bombardier CSeries 300 + 22 %

359 -  in operation 2014 Quantity produced 1 /  30h -   924 ( +  90h or +  9% ) List price -159,000,000 AS$= 1 / 30+  90= 120h or Market price -173,310,000 AS$ - Airbus A350-900XWB + 9 %

E95 - in operation 2006 Quantity produced 1 /  15h -    878 ( +  80h or +  8% ) List price -  35,500,000 AS$= 1 / 15+  80=   95h or Market price -  38,340,000 AS$ - Embraer 195 + 8 %

788 -  in operation 2011 Quantity produced 1 / 30h -    873 ( +  80h or +  8% ) List price -127,000,000 AS$= 1 /  30+ 80=  110h or Market price -137,160,000 AS$ - Boeing 787-8 + 8 %

320 - in operation 2016 Quantity produced 1 /  21h -    770 ( +  70h or +  7% ) List price -  60,000,000 AS$= 1 / 21+  70=   91h or Market price -  64,200,000 AS$ - Airbus A320neo light + 7 %

SU9 - in operation 2011 Quantity produced 1 /  39h -    757 ( +  70h or +  7% ) List price - 28,000,000 AS$= 1 /  39+  70= 109h or Market price -  29,960,000 AS$ - Sukhoi Superjet 100-95LR + 7 %

321 -  in operation 2017 Quantity produced 1 / 21h -    755 ( +  70h or +  7% ) List price - 72,980,000 AS$= 1 /  21+  70=   91h or Market price -  78,089,000 AS$ - Airbus A321neo light + 7 %

321 -  in operation 2017 Quantity produced 1 / 21h -    627 ( +  60h or +  6% ) List price - 67,500,000 AS$= 1 /  21+  60=   81h or Market price -  71,550,000 AS$ - Airbus A321-200 standard + 6 %

SU9 - in operation 2011 Quantity produced 1 /  39h -    584 ( +  50h or +  5% ) List price - 28,000,000 AS$= 1 / 39+   50=   89h or Market price -  29,400,000 AS$ - Sukhoi Superjet 100-95 + 5 %

320 -  in operation 1990 Quantity produced 1 /  21h -   536 ( +  50h or +  5% ) List price - 55,400,000 AS$= 1 /  21+  50=   71h or Market price -  58,170,000 AS$ - Airbus A320-200 light + 5 %

CR7 -in operation 2014 Quantity produced 1 /  12h -    520 ( +  50h or +  5% ) List price - 26,000,000 AS$= 1 /  12+  50=   62h or Market price -  27,300,000 AS$ - Bombardier CRJ 700 NextGen + 5 %

DH4 - in operation 2014 Quantity produced 1 / 18h -    477 ( +  40h or +  4% ) List price -  23,000,000 AS$= 1 / 18+  40=   58h or Market price -  23,920,000 AS$ - Bombardier Dash8-Q400 NextGen BASIC + 4 %

T20 - in operation 1995 Quantity produced 1 /144h -    316 ( +  30h or +  3% ) List price - 42,500,000 AS$= 1 /144+  30= 174h or Market price -  43,755,000 AS$ - Tupolev TU-204-100 + 3 %

321 -  in operation 2017 Quantity produced 1 / 21h -    301 ( +  30h or +  3% ) List price - 75,060,000 AS$= 1 /  21+  30=   51h or Market price -  77,312,600 AS$ - Airbus A321neo heavy + 3 %

AT7 -  in operation 2011 Quantity produced 1 /  15h -   293 ( +  20h or +  2% ) List price - 20,000,000 AS$= 1 /  15+  20=   35h or Market price -  20,400,000 AS$ - ATR 72-600 + 2 %

CRK - in operation 2010 Quantity produced 1 /  12h -   267 ( +  20h or +  2% ) List price - 32,750,000 AS$= 1 /  1220=   32h or Market price -  33,405,000 AS$ - Bombardier CRJ 1000 NextGen EL + 2 %

L4T -  in operation 1979 Quantity produced 1 /    6h -   265 ( +  20h or +  2% ) List price -   2,000,000 AS$= 1 /    620=   26h or Market price -    2,040,000 AS$ - LET 410UVP + 2 %

736 -  in operation 1998 Quantity produced 1 /  21h -   229 ( +  20h or +  2% ) List price - 40,500,000 AS$= 1 /  21+  20=   41h or Market price -  41,310,000 AS$ - Boeing 737-600 BGW + 2 %

E90 - in operation 2005 Quantity produced 1 /  15h -    206 ( +  20h or +  2% ) List price - 33,500,000 AS$= 1 /  15+  20=   35h or Market price -  34,170,000 AS$ - Embraer 190 + 2 %

AT7 -  in operation 1996 Quantity produced 1 /  15h -   181 ( +  10h or +  1% ) List price - 19,000,000 AS$= 1 /  15+  10=   25h or Market price -  19,190,000 AS$ - ATR 72-500 + 1 %


Edited by THRACIAN, 07.11.2017 - 08:11.


#31 alex_brunius

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Posted 09.10.2017 - 12:12

Wouldn't it be cool to see a "historical playthrough" gameworld?

Let's say the game world plays through the years 1960 to 2017 ( 57 real years ), but making 1 year = 1 month in terms of when airplanes are unlocked.

 

Then airplanes are unlocked at their "historical year" during the servers lifetime ( and maybe some global demand scaling as well ).


Edited by alex_brunius, 09.10.2017 - 12:12.


#32 THRACIAN

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Posted 15.11.2017 - 06:45

Wonderful suggestion, but it's very unlikely to happen soon !?

I will also be pleased with the OTTO 2.3 / Option 3 - 1980 - 1989.
No used aircraft at start. Double slots.

or another world that is:

Used airplanes without the possibility of ordering new aircraft.
Restriction - you can win and get just one used plane per day.
Double slots.



#33 THRACIAN

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Posted 23.01.2018 - 15:40

Is it possible to change way the configuration of the seats. There are too many unrealistic configurations.

This change would give equal opportunities at the start of a new world.

The strategy of the few seats in the airplane and the maximum tickets prices will not be up to date at least the at beginning !

 

1. Standard seats configuration - whenever the aircraft is leased.
2. Random seats configuration - only when the aircraft is purchased on credit or with its own funds.


Edited by THRACIAN, 23.01.2018 - 15:45.


#34 khoianh

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Posted 23.01.2018 - 18:28

The opportunities are equal to everyone. Or does anyone prohibit you from using a certain seat configuration?

 

I'm not denying that the situation at the moment (luxury seats at maximum prices wins the game) isn't ideal but the solution can't be just banning seat configs altogether.


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