Some initial frustrations

I’ve come here to post as a recent newcomer to the game. I really want to learn how to succeed, but as a newcomer, there are some serious hurdles to jump just to survive as an airline.

The first problem is the sheer size and complexity of the game. I actually like this problem and view it as part of the fun. There really isn’t a tutorial or a new player area, so I had to scour YouTube and the forums and google just to figure out how to start. A newbie zone which only players with accounts with less than two or three months old would be extremely helpful. Also, maybe some guides written by the guys with 7000 airplanes detailing how they clawed their way to the top would be fun to read.

The next problem is the realism factor. This game claims to be very realistic, and it is when you consider the scheduling, the aircraft stats, and the demand models. However, the realism is lost when you examine the largest enterprises on each server. On Gatow (and I won’t mention names) there is one guy with 11 companies and over 7000 planes. In real life, American Airlines is the largest airline in the world with around 1550 planes. In fact, this 7000 plane fleet is twice as large as the top 10 Airlines in real life combined. And he is only one of the large players.

A new layer of complexity is needed to slow down this oversized growth and allow for more players per server. It should be hard to get to 1000 planes, and damn near impossible to get to 1500. In real life, governments interfere, labor costs become overwhelming, airports auction slots, maintenance costs skyrocket, etc.

One way to kill the bloat would be to increase costs exponentially instead of linearly. For example, once you hire a certain number of employees, they unionize and labor costs explode. Or, once you control a certain number of planes, you have to buy a maintenance facility and start rotating planes…costs skyrocket and it’s much more difficult to manage. Then there’s slots. In real life slots cost money. Cheap in some places, absurdly expensive in LHR. Also, some airports reserve slots for local or smaller airlines for various reasons. Airlines are allowed to buy and sell slots to one another. Finally, the country markets do mirror real life, but I seriously doubt Columbia would allow a gigantic American corporation to set up a subsidiary and dominate the Colombian market…

One other issue is this: I am currently based in CCS, in Venezuela. I have the local market covered with logical scheduling waves. I’ve opened one round trip route to Lima, Peru. Somehow, no one else on earth is flying this route. Even if I fly 100 year old planes held together with duct tape, I should see demand. But no, there is zero demand even after two days in the scheduler ( I selected activate flight plan with 3 days wait). My domestic flights, however, are completely full. I’m flying 25 year old 737s with good service to 2, 3, and 4 bar airports 3 times a day. I’m convinced i could put seats outside on the wings and they would fill. I don’t understand why it’s so easy to get domestic passengers but so hard to find anyone among these throngs to fly to Lima when I’m the only show in town…

I want to add a little more, because there’s a few things I forgot to mention.

The first thing is debt. I’m obviously not 100% sure, but I imagine that the large enterprises in game are currently swimming in cash. This is not the case in real life. Large airlines like American do turn a profit, but they have debt coming out of their eyeballs. If things go wrong for too long, like lower demand or high fuel costs, American is in a lot of trouble. Yes American has 1500+ planes, but how many do they own debt free?

Another huge cost is taxation. The US just lowered its corporate rate to 24%, but it was in the high 30s. Are there taxes in the game? I should go look…

Finally there is demand. I’m not quite sure how it’s modeled yet, but it seems that image is king. In real life this is not the case. Economy passengers care about cost above all other concerns. That’s why guys like Spirit and Ryan Air can cause headaches for the big players. If people are willing to cram into tiny seats for cheap on Ryan (and they are) and Ryan is willing to fly on extremely low margins…what are the big guys going to do? Business passengers are different obviously. They care less for cost, but more for perks and comfort. They also love business lounges…First class…well they’re nuts. You have to throw amenities at them. And they do care about image and prestige…a lot. For this they are willing to pay absurd prices. In fact, they want high prices so that they don’t have to sit next to poor people.

So the game is hard at the start, which is good, but it should grow in complexity as you advance. This isn’t to say that some genius won’t figure out how to beat the complexity and grow to own 7000 planes, but, he should be a rare exception.

So those are some of my thoughts. What do you guys think?

links to "how to get started" and "frequently asked questions"

regarding airline sizes, well, they are the most successful in that world, I guess. yes, in real life, there is usually some regulation in place to avoid monopolies - but that does not hold true for all countries. there are countries that have state carriers or other political interests that keep real alternatives ouf of the market. but regarding making it harder to become that big, please refer to the - what feels like 10,000 - threads on the msg board. all pros and cons and opinions have been discussed. in the end, AS is a very neo-liberal capitalistic market plus some quirks that come along with game mechanics.

regarding international traffic: well, if you are the only carrier in Venezuela, you are only competing with your-self and thus always win.

the longer the route, the more likely other players have their hubs in between. between Lima and Caracas, there are usually quite a few airlines operating, so those pax, that actually want to travel from venezuela to Lima (and not anywhere near Lima) are not that many to start with and can choose between a few thousand travel alternatives. a few devided by a lot usually means very little to nothing.

and what do I think?

well, I think: welcome to AS. It is always good to have new players, particularly those, that want to get involved in the game.

However, you are raising points that have been raised dozens of time. that does not mean they are not valid points. It just means, there are a lot arguments and a lot of reasons for a lot of things. please check up on those. another discussion here will basically only be a copy and paste of last week's dicussion - and no knowledge gained.

now, my recommendation (as change, if ever to come, is going to be quite some way out): the market is the market with its rules as is. you can complain about it or you can adapt. that's what makes it very realistic, in my opinion. No airline can change that aircrafts require fuel, although I am sure some are praying they wouldn't to cut costs - well, they still do. so you can either refuse to acknowledge that and have your aircrafts sit on the apron without fuel - or buy fuel and try to safe money elsewhere.

1. New players area: would appreciate it. But to expect that experienced players with more than 7000 planes (by the way: there is another group with far more planes, look to Pearls) would explain the game by writing a guide - no way. They will not. And new players area will most likely be not the first thing or even the 25th point on developpers agenda.

2. Realism: there are hundreds of discussions here on the forum about realism. In my eyes, it is not possible to stay real. You are one single person, conducting airlines with thousands of planes. (Infact, you are not but for example I am.) I don't want to put more time in the simulation than I am actually putting in. And that would be needed if you want to be more realistic. One person cannot be responsible for all the actions and operations required within a realistic environment. And is so much possible to end with 7000+ airplanes... There is no limitation such as taxation or authorities looking for equal conditions for everybody. No, you can grow and grow and grow. If you have understood the system of course.

3. Routes: in regard to routing, you really should read the discussions here in the forum and watch the available tutorials. It is well explained how connections make your airline having success. Nothing to add here, just a personal note: Venezuela is amazing, you can fly with hundreds of planes domestic and very near international flights before going longhaul.

Thank you for the replies so far. I have this to add:

I have read the new player guides and I’ve watched dozens of YouTube videos. Unfortunately I only speak English, and a lot of the videos are in German…my problem not yours.

Also, please consider what I actually wrote. I have 14 737s flying 3 times a day round trip to my domestic cities with 100% load factors. So I should have at least some willing connectors. Also, I am currently the only person with a flight between Lima and Caracas…so I’m surprised by the empty seats.

The other stuff is just brainstorming.

I had a not-too-small airline in CCS awhile ago and there actually was little demand between CCS and Peru. Most pax came from connections.

and if you read the tutorials and other stuff here carefully, you will learn, that 5000 connecting flights between CCS and Lima can still take away all pax from your direct flight just by the sheer number of alternatives.

if you give us your airline name and the server you are on, I am sure, somewhat will have a look at your airline and provide more concrete advise.

Sure, it’s Sierra Airlines Venezuela on Gatow.

My 737s fly domestic and they are full.

One 737 is on the Lima-Caracas route, no seats sold yet.

The 4 757s are for international routes…but I’m still researching where to go. If any of my IL requests go through then the planes go to their cities.

The lone 747 is for any IL partner in its range…I was hoping to sneak it into Europe…

Thank you for the replies so far. I have this to add:

I have read the new player guides and I’ve watched dozens of YouTube videos. Unfortunately I only speak English, and a lot of the videos are in German…my problem not yours.

Also, please consider what I actually wrote. I have 14 737s flying 3 times a day round trip to my domestic cities with 100% load factors. So I should have at least some willing connectors. Also, I am currently the only person with a flight between Lima and Caracas…so I’m surprised by the empty seats.

The other stuff is just brainstorming.

Most of the tutorials on YouTube are English (at least the good ones). Check this guy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-X_Y9xQR0tA, then you have seen enough.

14 planes is - sorry to say it - nothing. Fly with at least 2.500 departs from CCS domestic only and you will have your connections.

Please also allow some smile and laugh - you expect passengers on longhaul after 2 booking and demand circles without one single flight yet...

On the other hand: you seem to do quite some things right as your domestic fligts are filling well. Take that as your starting point and move forward.

Sure, it’s Sierra Airlines Venezuela on Gatow.

My 737s fly domestic and they are full.

One 737 is on the Lima-Caracas route, no seats sold yet.

The 4 757s are for international routes…but I’m still researching where to go. If any of my IL requests go through then the planes go to their cities.

The lone 747 is for any IL partner in its range…I was hoping to sneak it into Europe…

757 and 747 are months too early. I assume you have NOT really read and watched the available informations.

after a quick look.

your flight between CCS and LIM is only the 100th best option out of over 10,000 possible connections and you only offer some 400 weekly flights out of CCS. those two factors together explain, why there is not a single booking on your flight.

also, given that you only activated the flight yesterday with a three days delay, the flight might simply not have been available for booking in the ORS at the time CCS and LIM had their demand updates.

regarding aircraft choice, I agree with highscore.

Thanks, high score. I really appreciate your responses so far.

I have seen the video you linked…that entire series is awesome.

You made a point earlier that I could fly hundreds of planes in Venezuela. That really surprised me and caught my attention. To be honest I was surprised to fill my 737s so quickly. I read all the CS7 advice and such and expected to fail miserably with the bigger jets.

In fact, I wanted to see if 2,3,and 4 bar airports could support larger jets. They can…and this is with 2 competing airlines in CCS…

I agree with your opinion on the 757s and the 747. I had the intention of experimenting with IL connectors. Believe it or not I’m running with a profit even with those 5 planes sitting on the ground and the previously mentioned unfilled Lima plane.

Yukawa, how did you find that data on the Lima flight? I don’t know where to find that…

You made the next step. Relalizing that domestic market is king. :-)

Yukawa, how did you find that data on the Lima flight? I don’t know where to find that...

ORS (Online reservations system) gives you the data.

Which menu is ORS under? I play in my mobile device, not a PC…so I need to know which drop down menu that’s under. That stat you quoted just blew me away…I had no idea my flight was so lowly rated

Database. And you will only see it if you are premium member.

I agree with your opinion on the 757s and the 747. I had the intention of experimenting with IL connectors. Believe it or not I’m running with a profit even with those 5 planes sitting on the ground and the previously mentioned unfilled Lima plane.

I don't believe that you will survive the first week with 5 huge planes sitting on the ground.

Highscore, I was careful to find older planes with low lease rates. Thus with my current cash on hand and with my daily cash flow I am ok financially. Ok = small, tiny profit and no bankruptcy. Of course this depends on the domestic flights remaining full. And we all know my competitors are reading this…

Yakuwa, thank you. I did not know to look there for the ORS. And yes, my account is premium. It is going to stay that way too. I’m reading your new player guide again. I may need to read it a few dozen times. It’s that good.

Good luck - even with cheap leasings, these big planes will cost will be expensive. You may want to watch the expenses in your weekclosing. Then you can recalculate if you will really survive or not. Again, I doubt it (even without looking into your airline).