Would you ever lease a plane from a Parent Company (based in a different country) of your competitor?
This Parent Company is the largest shareholder (but not 51% majority) of a principal competitor to one of my airlines.
What about if that plane was being leased at 30% of the comparable plane's rate (age, condition). Would you lease it or not?
Would the competitor be likely to cancel the lease on you?
That is my worry...
Only one way to find out
That's right :)
So I will risk it and see what happens.
if that plane was being leased at 30% of the comparable plane's rate (age, condition). Would you lease it or not?
I learned my lesson with that. When I was on Nicosia I also found a cheap airplane for lease from another player. It was shortly after creating the airline and I needed the profits of this fully booked 737-300. However, at some point he realized the price I got and cancelled the lease, explaining to me that the lease rate was way too low. Well, I asked why didn't you think of that when you offered it for lease? Eventually he offered me to lease it again at a higher price......yeah right :lol:
That's right :)
So I will risk it and see what happens.
Good morning world. So I risked, and this morning I received 4 messages today:
Quote:
Interswiss has terminated the leasing contract of leased aircraft PP-BHQ (Boeing 737-600 BGW).
Sorry for the inconvenience this might cause.
Sincerely, your Fleet Management Department.
Good I haven't put in the seats yet! It will "only" cost me one week lease payment. I just cant believe how some players are full of it.
Although this is unfortunate for you, I don’t see why a lessor should not have some limitation on whom he wants to lease the aircraft. It would help if there would be some kind of a comment field where the lessor could add (if wanted) any restrictions (e.g. like ‘only to newbies’, ‘not to competitors’ etc.). Currently the only thing he can do is to terminate the leasing right away, which I agree might be definitely annoying - but maybe reasonable.
Of course, anybody has right to lease to whomever he wants. And the "info box" same as there is one with offers for terminals, would be really good.
But I actually personally somewhat expected this. I gave it 30% vs 70%. Looks like this competitor of mine is the type of player that goes crying to the mommy anytime something he does not like happens... It is the same type of player that cancelled interline with one of Sobelair's airlines on Tempelhof, for the only reason that he tried to help a new player by interlining with him and the other guy didn't like that....
I say, too bad the lessor is not publicly traded... I would have had a chat with the shareholders informing them the management of the company was not acting in their fiduciary interest and advising them that they should consider firing the management :)
At least I transferred the planes to a nice place called FUK.
:)
At the moment it looks like you are the kind of player you described, no? ;)
I'm a lessor myself with several companies and never had a problem leasing a plane to my competitors, but that said, I would never give a larger bargain on the leasing rates either if a competitor is leasing the plane. As you said, his move was predictable, and therefore I don't understand why you did not contact him first? Some time ago it was possible to offer a plane "unsigned", so as a lessor you could decide to whom you are leasing it. We've lost this with the introduction of the new aircraft market and variable prices. Right now the smartest thing to do is to communicate. Maybe he would have said something like "I can offer it to you for 70%" or something like that. At least nobody would have lost any money.
Hehe, am I ? :)
Well yes, I have sent IGM and I am waiting for a reply. But I expect there will either be no reply or the reply will be the "competition" issue.
I simply cannot imagine that anybody puts four planes on the used market for the wrong/unintended price. You can do it with one. It is barely explicable if you do it with two. Putting four, it's clear you intend to lease them out at such rate. So again, I do not expect the "price" argument because it would really, really be weird to claim that.
@rubiohiguey2000
Maybe you wanted to lease it to a certain enterprise (your subsidiary or parent). Then it makes sense to offer 4 planes at such rates.
@rubiohiguey2000
Maybe you wanted to lease it to a certain enterprise (your subsidiary or parent). Then it makes sense to offer 4 planes at such rates.
Leasing within your corporate umbrella uses a different interface that bypasses the aircraft market entirely. You can only lease to yourself at 100% of book value.
It's not necessarily your enterprise. It can be an alliance colleague or some other agreement. Isn't it ?
You usually do such a thing in a coordinated manner, and get the planes as soon as they are listed. I have seen them listed for couple of hours with nobody bidding on them, so I do not think this is the case either. You simply do not put something you do not others want to get a hold of unattended for a prolonged period of time. It would be foolish.
The leasing rate is never directly shown to the lessor, and without any experience you are not able to determine how high a leasing rate is without checking the offer with a second airline. So it is very easy to offer a plane for the wrong price, even four at the same time. And why should it be a wrong price at all? Maybe he just doesn't want to lease it to you for that price. ;)
Hi,
if I wanted to lease an aircraft from a competitor, I would send him a message first. A lot of people underestimate the value of communication.
This being said, the old second hand market gave lessors the choice between pre-signed leasing contracts, and leasing contracts that had to be approved. But I appreciate that the bidding system makes that a bit awkward.
Jan
I too would like the option of making newly acquired aircraft available to select enterprises only.
As a large leaser on Meigs, just today i had to terminate an agreement with 2 companies instantly (to which I have apologised to both)
It was due to the aircraft I put on the market being destined for one enterprise I had previously agreed terms with, but as a bidding war broke out, he lost out on 3 of the order...
I have invited the 2 companies put out to contact me with requirements, but the option to indicate who can bid on an aircraft would be useful....
I think enabling option for a private listing would resolve such a situation. You would either select public, or private listing for aircraft lease and sale. You would enter Enterprise ID if it was a private listing, and such aircraft would not even be visible to others, only the selected enterprise.
Probably you are right. On the other hand, this feature aims contribute to the game balance and prevent misuse. Having said this, I admit, that the option of terminating contracts immediately is a bit ridiculous. So there are two options - either private listing or preventing an immediate termination of leasing contracts by the lessor. I favor the latter.